8/21/2025 - AI and the Future of Creative Work: A Songwriter's Perspective

Transcript

1. 0:01He's so trampy. That little champ. [Music]
2. 0:2110,000 words around my head. 10 million more in books written beneath my bed. [Music] I wrote old demo when searching in my
3. 0:38care how to hold my hands and I know you need me over. I'm stuck in here all paralyzed.
4. 0:574 months I got myself in ruts. Too much time spinning mirrors framed in yellow balls. [Music] Ain't it like most people? I'm no
5. 1:11different. Like to talk on things we don't know about. [Music] Ain't it like most people? I'm no different. Life knock on things we don't
6. 1:24know about. [Music]
7. 1:51It's not simple to say that most days I don't recognize me that these shoes apron that place and its patrons
8. 2:07have taken more than I gave them. >> It's not easy to know I'm not anything like I used to be. Oh, it's true. I was
9. 2:22never attention sweet center. I still remember that girl. She's imperfect, but she tried. She is good, but she lies.
10. 2:37She is hard on herself. She is broken and won't ask for help. She is messy, but she's kind. She's lonely.
11. 2:53Most of the time she's all of this mixed up and baked a beautiful pie. She's gone, but she used to be mine.
12. 3:08[Music]
13. 3:31Oh, good people. What is happening? What is happening on the internet? What did Sam Waltman launch today? What's
14. 3:38happening? What's going down? was shaking. Anybody? Anybody? Anyone? [Music] Oh, good lord. All right. Well, it's an intimate crowd.
15. 3:56It's an intimate crowd here at the lab late on a Thursday night. You know what's going on. A lot of people have kids going back to school
16. 4:11and so they're getting drunk. I know that's what's that's what's happening. They're like they're finally out of the house. Let's get drunk.
17. 4:26[Music] There's no audio on Tik Tok.
18. 4:43People on Tik Tok can't hear me. No. Is it just a Vicki problem? Confirmed. No audio.
19. 4:57Right. One of the things we're going to be redoing is your park. [Music]
20. 5:12Hello. Can you hear me now? Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? I was wondering. I was wondering. Good chaps. Good fella. We can't hear you.
21. 5:26But it's okay. You're singing. That was rude. I love it. That was a good troll. Solid troll. Oh, let me start over. [Music]
22. 5:5010,000. All right, that's it. All right. Fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic. Good people. Yeah. Lip sync is off for me. What do you mean
23. 6:06the lip sync is off? [Music]
24. 6:25My voice is lagging. I wonder if I've got bad internet. Read the pin. There's no pin. [Music]
25. 6:40I'm good for Tobias. Tobias is the only one I care about. So long as my lips sync is is on for Tobias. To hell with everyone else.
26. 6:50I think you all understand that, right, Vicki? The I was trying to lipre. Oh, when I when I was just making fun.
27. 7:00Fine, I'll log back in. All right. Yeah, that's good. Let's put this on Dr. J. This is all on Dr. J. Hey, Joy Party. What's happening?
28. 7:11[Music]
29. 7:27archetypal architect. I can't hear you on Tik Tok, but I don't have Tik Tok up. That's That's comedy. That's That's
30. 7:36technology comedy right there. I got to tell you, it's solid. That's That's some solid solid comedy works right there.
31. 7:42And I guess I could do my black bar. And I guess I could flip my camera. I could do my camera flipping. There we go. [Music]
32. 7:57You wonder why it's an intimate crowd. [Music] I closed the app and came back and now
33. 8:11the audio is fixed. Yay. I'm learning rotoscoping this week. You don't need rotoscoping anymore, Joy. I mean, sure, if you want to actually
34. 8:25control things, but doesn't runway now have that new thing, the runway al where you can just upload a video clip and
35. 8:32just change the location, I'm pretty sure. Or like change the main character to be in cartooning. I don't
36. 8:40think you need to learn rotoscoping. Not to crap all over your parade, Joy. Listen, you've learned more about video
37. 8:48editing and production in the past 6 months than I'll ever learn in my life. And I own a video company, but to be
38. 8:54fair, my video company exists because I hated editing so much. Yes, but I was losing quality. Ah, oh,
39. 9:08you wanted quality. Yeah, that's You're not going to get that with AI. Not just yet. You're gonna have to give that two years. I do fear.
40. 9:19And quite frankly, Joy, as you know, learning the craft of how to do it the oldfashioned way will pay you dividends.
41. 9:25It'll get you jobs because you'll be able to speak the language. [Music]
42. 9:52Have I heard about Nano Banana? I have. And I'm like, honey, that's kind of rude to say to your husband. It's a micro penis joke.
43. 10:11Uh yes, I have heard about Nano Banana, the the code name for the Google image editing tool. Sorry, sorry. I just had sometimes you
44. 10:21just have to go seventh grade. You got to go sophomoric humor and if you don't do it, it's an opportunity lost. Whis
45. 10:28whiskey club is good. Yes. Have I heard of Nano Banana? That was my nickname in college.
46. 10:46No, it really was. [Music]
47. 11:21What did I just walk into? Literally the thing I hear is micro penis. We were just talking about the code name
48. 11:32of Google's new radically powerful image editing tool rumored to be Google. Uh and you know according to Google size doesn't matter. [Music]
49. 11:48[Applause] [Music]
50. 12:06I didn't mean to cause you any sorrow. [Music] Didn't mean to cause you any pain. [Music] Only one time to see you laughing.
51. 12:22[Music] Only want to see you laughing in that purple rain. Purple rain. Purple rain. Purple
52. 12:37rain. Purple rainbow [Music] rain. [Music]
53. 12:51Only want to see you laughing in that purple ring. Um, yeah. So, Nano Banana looks good. I don't know when we're going to have
54. 13:01access to it. And Google didn't confirm that it was theirs on their Pixel 10 event. So, it's still rumor at this
55. 13:07point, but it looks like that's what it is. Princeton acoustic version, too. Yeah, that version that I was just
56. 13:12singing, that's the Martin Ston version. The mart the Martin Ston Purple Rain is amazing. I stopped singing it right
57. 13:19there because that's the point where he actually starts singing really good and I don't. So I sing I sing the setup and then I stop.
58. 13:35Oh, good lord. Good people. He's got a falsetto. He does. He's got an amazing voice. Martin Ston. His falsetto. There's something about
59. 13:47the way his face is designed. The structure of his face. It's just like the sound comes out of his face like
60. 13:53trumpets. It's amazing. Absolutely amazing. Amazing. Harry Nelson. Yeah, I like him too.
61. 14:14There's a Harry Nielson song that Nico Casease covered. She covered it on that Elvis Costello show. She was on with Jesse Winchester,
62. 14:24Cheryl Crowe, Jesse, forget Jesse's last name, and Nico Casease. It was a really good episode, but it's it's weird. It's not A
63. 14:36lot of those shows are on YouTube, but that one's missing for some reason. Has Carl Kyle been gardening tonight? I
64. 14:45haven't been gardening, but I was drinking whiskey. So, you know, I heard on the news about the farmer's tragedy.
65. 14:55I did not hear about that, so I don't know what that is. Corey Sandler, I saw Martin Ston in the early 90s at the
66. 15:02Seapport Folk Festival. Wow, that's amazing. I saw my my my I've I've seen Martin Ston, I don't know, four or five
67. 15:10times now. And uh but I I saw him in a songwriting course. He he did a two-hour master class in a songwriting course
68. 15:19that I was in and oh my god, it was amazing. [Music] Nice. Erica, I was on stage with Prince
69. 15:33while he played that song on the sound stage in the house. Life-changing moment. That's amazing. I actually got
70. 15:40to talk to Prince once. He was um he was trying to find someone to build his first website and someone gave him our name and I was
71. 15:49the chief creative off officer at the agency and so I talked to his manager and then he goes, "Okay, I'm going to
72. 15:55put Prince on now and you know he got on the phone." He's like, "Hello, hello, hello." I can't even go go as low as it
73. 16:02was. His voice was so low like that was crazy. [Music]
74. 16:17What's your whiskey of choice? I am a Bllandon's man. A blanton. A blanton. A blanton. [Music] Cha. Uh, I am a Bllandon's guy. Um, tonight I
75. 16:34had an Old Forester old fine whiskey 93 proof double cask. [Music] The theme of the whiskey night tonight
76. 16:45was campfire and they started a campfire when it was 90° out. We all went in the air conditioning. Basil Hidden probably my favorite. Very
77. 16:57nice. I love that. Oh, he's been the reason you started your agency and left TV news. Wow, that's so cool. He's a good
78. 17:06hugger. Yeah, I never got to meet him in person, but talking to him on the phone was a trip, man. He was so, you know,
79. 17:13I'm like me, like I'm peppy, and if there was a counter energy to who I am, it was Prince. It was weird. I'd be like, be just like silence.
80. 17:26>> I'd be like, >> "Hey, Kyle, >> hello. Um, >> oh yeah, the Tik Tok audio is working now. That was just a confirmation. Um,
81. 17:39but I I I have something for you. Uh, if you actually want to talk about AI at the AI learning lab, I just >> Yeah, just in case.
82. 17:46>> Wait, AI? >> I talked about AI at Whiskey. I don't need to talk about it here. >> Okay. Well, in case you change your
83. 17:56mind, I just I just sent you a uh Twitter DM from Robbie Stein. Uh he is VP of product at Google search and um
84. 18:08they had some significant updates with AI mode and it's a five-part tweet. So, >> all right, let's go look at that. All right, I like it.
85. 18:19Let's go share it. Let's go share it. All right, we're going rogue. Well, no, we're going we're following the
86. 18:27recommendation of our producer, which if you've learned anything in radio, if you've learned anything in radio, you do
87. 18:35the opposite of what the producer suggests. All right, Robbie Stein, today we're announcing new agentic and personalization features in
88. 18:47AI mode that make search even more useful and tailored to you. And a further nail in the coffin to SEO agencies everywhere.
89. 18:59Agentic web brows web browsing capabilities from Project Mariner make it easier than ever to find and
90. 19:07book restaurant reservations. Oh my god. I feel like these AI companies, it's like their only [ __ ] use case is
91. 19:16you've got to book restaurant reservations. Anyway, sorry. Like, can we come up with another use case? You've got to find the uh
92. 19:32dog kibble manufacturer in your neighborhood. I live relatively close to the Pyina plant here in Denver. It's disgusting.
93. 19:43Um, tell AI mode exactly what you're looking for and search will present a curated list of restaurants with
94. 19:49available tables and time slots for you to choose from. Okay, so that's sort of like search, but okay, I guess.
95. 20:00Get personalized dining recommendations tailored to your unique taste. Okay, that's different. Now, when you search
96. 20:06for dining related topics in AI mode, you'll see suggestions that are more relevant and personalized based on your
97. 20:12previous conversations and places you've searched for or tapped in search and maps available for available for people in
98. 20:22the US who've opted into AI mode in experimental. Finally, we've added new link sharing capability in AI mode, so
99. 20:29it's even easier to collaborate with friends and family. All right, that's kind of cool. Check out the new AI mode capabilities.
100. 20:43Where that's is that just at Google? Do I do I have that enabled? If I just go to google.com AI mode. Yes, I do. Um,
101. 20:57>> it's not on the Twitter tab though. Oh, now it is right. >> Yes. >> Um,
102. 21:14reservations for meat in Denver tomorrow
103. 21:28for me. And make sure you hit AI mode uh instead of just enter because if you do enter, it'll just do regular Google search.
104. 21:34>> Oh, interesting. >> All right, kicking off eight searches. Steak dinner reservations. Garden Grace, Modern Steakhouse. Reservations
105. 21:47recommended. Call or visit their website. Visit their website's not a hyperlink. Bizarre. All right, whatever. A5 steakhouse
106. 22:03urban farmer. Like, that's pretty good. That's a pretty good search result. Yeah, you're not going to get the um
107. 22:17agentic behavior yet because it's not opted in in labs, but this gives you a pretty good idea of what they've been
108. 22:23working on behind the scenes. Yeah, pretty cool. >> All right, gy. All right, what are we going to talk
109. 22:34about tonight, people? What is the plan? What is the plan? H, wait, we're still talking about micro penises. Oh, micro first micro penis and
110. 22:45and now me. I was talking about steak. I see a pattern here. The pattern is I'm an idiot. It's It's a pretty consistent
111. 22:56pattern and it's been here for a while. Speaking of which, I think it's only appropriate. I haven't dawned the pink bow in a while.
112. 23:09All right. And I know ladies, I'm not wearing it right. I get told that every, you know, that's not how you're supposed
113. 23:15to wear it. You know, we, you know, pink bows are very specific. They got a very specific use case for us. I know. I
114. 23:24know. I know. Pinkiey's out. [Music] All right. That's cutting off the blood to my brain. I think that's not a good idea.
115. 23:36All right. Let's see. Um, what are we going to do tonight?
116. 23:57could go finish that song we started two nights ago or last night whenever that was. Oh, I know what I You know what? I want
117. 24:09to play you a video. [Music]
118. 24:26the honeymoon round. Sorry if that was loud. Where's my audio here? [Music]
119. 24:42It's this one. >> And then it's this one. All right. Um, so this is a video. I did a duet to this today. I don't ever do duets, but I did
120. 24:57one to this today because I think it's I think it's an important video. How about a connection? How about connections in chat GPT and
121. 25:07Gemini? Connections like the game, like the New York Times connections thing. I don't know quite how that goes, but I
122. 25:13can ask it. Anyway, um we we talk a lot about extensions. What's that mean? What's extensions mean? Oh, extensions connect to Google Drive.
123. 25:30I don't know how to do that, Corey. I would do that. No, the new connections and customizations like make them and see if they work. The
124. 25:38last time the last time I tried it, it didn't work. Like I connected them and then I tried to like look for something.
125. 25:43and he goes, "I don't have access to your Gmail." I'm like, "Well, I just [ __ ] connected it." So, I haven't tried it since. Um,
126. 25:53anyway, let me play this video and then we'll figure out something else to do. Um, so I talk a lot in here about Kevin
127. 25:59Mallister moments and and I also talk about the five stages of AI adoption. And if you go to the AI salon in the in
128. 26:08the welcome to the salon page, that's got the Oops. Why is that not sharing? Because Okay, that's just weird.
129. 26:22I honestly don't know what's going on with the sharing on this machine lately. Anyway, if you go to the AI salon, um
130. 26:31the salon.ai or community.thesalon.ai on the welcome page, we've got the five stages of AI adoption. Stage one is
131. 26:40dismissal or denial. So that's where a lot of people are right now is AI is crap. AI steals. I I don't believe in
132. 26:48AI. I don't think it's all that good. I tried it once. All that sort of stuff is stage one. Stage two is awe. It's a
133. 26:54Kevin Mallister moment where you realize, holy [ __ ] the world's different. I didn't know it could do
134. 26:59that. And then stage three is wonder and fear. So reverence and dread simultaneously. So, this video that I'm going to show
135. 27:08you is is stages two and three um kind of rolled into one video. Um, and it's it's it's pretty amazing video to witness. Um, okay. So,
136. 27:22let me move that over there. Let me move that over there. All right. Can everybody see? Is everybody good? All right.
137. 27:30>> Hi, my name is Fernando Pomo. I am a record producer and singer songwriter currently living in Los Angeles. >> I can barely hear that.
138. 27:39>> This might be the most important video I ever post. Um, my job is in jeopardy because of AI. And I say that with
139. 27:50some crazy emotions going right now because I'm equally offended as I am impressed. But um, >> I'm I'm equally offended as I am
140. 28:00impressed. AI music creation software has now reached >> and I am honestly blown away by what I'm about to show you. Um, so
141. 28:11>> why can I not make this louder? Hang on. Sound settings. Output. Output volume is maxed.
142. 28:37So um there is uh this program called Sumo and it's a program that a lot of people use to create AI music and the
143. 28:47usual way you do it is you type in the lyrics and you put a prompt and it creates a song. Well, it has a new
144. 28:54feature. new feature is hum a tune, take a tap out a beat or sing a melody. Well, I'm going to now show you uh an a
145. 29:05bridged version of my song called California Moon, which is one of my fan favorite songs. And it was okay. So, if
146. 29:11you didn't hear that, you you'll be able to hear the rest of this. If you didn't hear that, what he basically says is
147. 29:16he's a songwriter and a producer, and his job is in jeopardy because of what he just learned about SNO, the uh the
148. 29:22songwriting tool. And he said what he knew Sunno could do before was you could type in text and it would generate a
149. 29:29song. What he didn't know was that you could play the beginning of a song and it will just finish it for you. And so
150. 29:35that's what he's actually about to demo. It's >> recorded uh it was actually covered by Pat Sansone of Wilco and Defense. One of
151. 29:43the most beautiful voices ever. But here's an abridged version of the song. We're going to do a verse and chorus. [Music]
152. 29:54Instead of dancing in the dark, let's go out tonight. The moon is shining bright. Let's go out tonight.
153. 30:14Moon is shining, shining on you. California moon is shining
154. 30:28shining on you. [Music] Oh, shining on you. [Music]
155. 30:44Stop. Now I'm going to paste in. He needs the chips. >> And I'm just gonna hit create.
156. 31:01Let's count together. >> Um, so Ryan, to your comment on doesn't this say more about the songs than AI?
157. 31:08No, he does he does a follow-up video of of this video where he takes his most complicated song, his most sophisticated
158. 31:16cordal chord progression song and puts it in sunno. Now, you'll you'll see just listen to what what Sunno does with this
159. 31:24with what he just played. One Mississippi 2 Mississippi 3 Mississippi 4 Mississippi 5 Mississippi 6 Mississippi 7 Mississippi 8 Mississippi
160. 31:369 Mississippi 10 Mississippi 10 seconds this is what it created in 10 seconds [Music]
161. 31:54[Music] I'm not faking this. This actually just happened. >> I don't know if you heard that. He goes,
162. 32:01"I'm not faking this. This actually just happened." Yeah. This This is the Jimmy Buffet version. [Music] >> It caught all the chord progress
163. 32:17to G. >> That's nice. Now just do the B minor. [Music] >> There's the B minor.
164. 32:33>> Now, are you ready for the death punch? >> In that 10 seconds, I love that. That's very easy. In that same 10 seconds, it
165. 32:41created two versions. >> Version two. instead of [Music]
166. 32:57>> Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Erica, the the the the awe and sadness on his face are a little heartbreaking. I I I commented to him a
167. 33:05couple of times today. I I mean this I think that every single knowledge worker and creative worker, anyone who works on computers
168. 33:21is going to confront this moment. I like what what I really appreciate him sharing this is he's sharing that it
169. 33:30kind of in the moment where he's still aruck by it, right? and terrified and impressed and but he's not shying away from it. He's
170. 33:42like he's like I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna face this demon, right? And and I think I think for me this this is
171. 33:51actually an important video because I think everyone's going to go through this if you haven't gone through it
172. 33:56already. Anyone who's not into AI is going to have this moment at some point. [Music] Why would anybody need a producer?
173. 34:06>> Why would anyone need a producer? He just said >> I'm going to let this one play out. I
174. 34:21don't even know what's happening, >> but this is crazy. [Music] You see my eyes dying.
175. 34:37>> He just said, "Do you see my eyes dying?" [Music]
176. 34:51>> That's really clever. [Music] Oh my god. [Music]
177. 35:06>> This is crazy. I'm equally impressed >> that I am like
178. 35:21>> I'm equally impressed that I am bummed offended. >> Offended. I bet you do a guitar solo. It's going to do a guitar solo.
179. 35:39He just said it's I bet it's going to do a guitar solo. He goes, "It's going to do a guitar solo." And then it does. [Music] >> So,
180. 35:50I don't know what you guys are doing. >> Yeah. Let me let me pop over and play the other one for a second.
181. 35:59>> For my final test of sumo tonight, I'm going to uh sing into it an unfinished song idea. And >> that wasn't it. Let's see. This one.
182. 36:08>> Today's test of Sunno's production skills is my most complicated composition called Feels. This song has
183. 36:15more chords in the intro than the entire Ramon's catalog. So, um, let's see if I can stump Sunno. And also, I've always
184. 36:22wanted to hear this song with a string quartet and a vocal. Let's see what happens here. [Music]
185. 36:43feels when the stars align and you're on my mind. You're my favorite finds [Music]
186. 36:58running down my spine. Knowing you are mine tonight. [Music]
187. 37:14>> His name is Fernando Perdome. It's Fernando Perdome music. P E R D O M Pommo. Fernando Perdomo music is his Tik Tok
188. 37:29channel. But here here he's playing his most complicated song. [Music] Source camp encountered a hostile AI
189. 37:43hater tonight. Lost his job. 25year-old son can't get a job. Yep. Yep. Yeah. This this is 2025 has been
190. 37:54the year that AI has gone from a novelty to competent. 2026 is where it goes from competent to like world class and where impact on
191. 38:07jobs is going to be felt like the the first real clear stuff is is going to be either late this year or early next year. mess.
192. 38:22[Music] Take that, Sununo. Oh, man. I feel like I'm bullying it.
193. 38:38All right. All right. Lyrics have been pasted in. >> So, one of the things one of the things that's really interesting here, the way the way
194. 38:49AI embedding works, the way training these models work, you can train them on anything and they don't know the difference
195. 38:58between what we find complicated and what we find simple. So for a large language model to understand Chinese is
196. 39:07not inherently more complicated for it to understand English or French or Spanish where with us if it's something
197. 39:15like Chinese where it's way far out of our you know out of our comfort zone and out of our you know lineage of language
198. 39:22it's a it's a completely different thing but it doesn't experience it that way. Same with the music. He's interacting
199. 39:29with like with this like because he put in more complicated chords that Sunno is actually analyzing those chords in some
200. 39:37way. It's not right. It's just it's basically creating a probability going into what's I I assume the equivalent of
201. 39:45a diffusion model for images and just generating a song out of that. So like absolutely fascinating >> style male vocal
202. 40:00string quartet. >> Oh yeah, he said he wanted to hear this as a string quartet. That was that was a cool thing. >> No guitar. No drones.
203. 40:19All right, here we go. One Mississippi 2 Mississippi 3 Mississippi 4 Mississippi 5 Mississippi 6 Mississippi 7 Mississippi 8
204. 40:31Mississippi 9 Mississippi 10 Mississippi 10 seconds >> Tom they're they're not complicated chords. They may not be, but that it's
205. 40:39this is his most complicated song. [Music] >> Whoa. [Music]
206. 41:03>> It's got a very Beatles kind of boppy string section, doesn't it? And you're a >> little more bouncy than I expected. down.
207. 41:19[Music] >> It's touching every chord, [Music] >> man.
208. 41:41Love is real. [Music] So anyway, so I mean here's my thought
209. 41:56on this th this guy. So there there's a couple of things. A bunch of things are are blasting through my head right now.
210. 42:02One is I just I I think Erica your point about this guy being vulnerable enough to share like like his real time reaction to this
211. 42:14rather than just [ __ ] run and hide in the closet. Um I think is I think is a really incredible thing that he did. Um
212. 42:25because you know he's not going to be the only one that goes through this. And if you look at um Timberland, if you know the producer
213. 42:36Timberland, he's got a similar video where he he put out the video the first time he heard Sunno and his his
214. 42:43associate producer put in a fragment of a song that Timberland had created at some point and just put it into finished the song and
215. 42:54you see his reaction and he's he's dumbfounded. He's like, "This thing can't sing, can it?" And then it starts
216. 43:00singing and he's like just blown away at the chord progressions and at the at what it what it produced.
217. 43:07But Timberland now like works with Sunno and he's using Sunno in his, you know, in his music writing, in his music
218. 43:16production workflow. He's he's figured out how to roll it in and how to collaborate with it and treat it as a collaborator. Um,
219. 43:25this guy, I mean, he's clearly fil, fil with songwriting, really knows music theory, really knows his songs, really knows his taste.
220. 43:36If he embraces this, he's going to be better at Sunno than any schlub that doesn't know anything about music,
221. 43:44right? So, a lot of people are just going to be pressing the buttons on, squirt out a song, squirt out a song,
222. 43:50squirt out a song. And those are going to be generic run-of-the-mill songs. But if you take someone with skills and
223. 43:55someone that's been writing as long as this guy has, he's going to get something different out of it. Right?
224. 44:00And this gets back to Rick Rick Rubin. There's a there's a video of Rick Rubin recently where someone asked him about do you
225. 44:09think AI music can ever be music? And he said, he said, "My my the thing I find the most interesting about art
226. 44:20is the point of view of the person behind it." And that struck me as you can use AI mindlessly and you can
227. 44:33create AI slop just like you can use a camera mindlessly and and shoot snapshots, right? you just you're just
228. 44:40shooting tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick and and those are snapshots of your vacation, right? Or if
229. 44:46you've got a strong creative point of view, you can wait until sunset at the beach and make sure that someone's
230. 44:51standing on the surf and the the light is coming through the waves as they're crashing and you take the picture at
231. 44:58just the right moment. You've got a point of view and all of a sudden that exact same camera and that exact same
232. 45:04push of the shutter button now creates a photograph, not a snapshot. You can do the same with AI. AI can absolutely be a snapshot. Click,
233. 45:15click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. Right? And I think that's how a lot of people are going to use it and that's what
234. 45:22gives it a bad reputation and that's what pisses people off about it. But if you take a guy like this and he takes
235. 45:28fragments of songs that he never finished and puts them in here and explores them and comes up with a song
236. 45:34and he's like, "Oh yeah, that's really good." And then he learns it and then he produces it. He's going to do this in a different way
237. 45:42than someone else. It's going to it's going to be a new tool that gets worked into his workflow. or he can choose to be the victim of it
238. 45:54and just lament the fact that we don't make songs the way we used to, right? Um, and I think that's every single
239. 46:05knowledge worker, every single creative, every single person that does anything with computers. You're going to have this moment, right?
240. 46:14The minute you try to do the stuff you do and you realize, "Oh [ __ ] that's at least as good as me, if not better."
241. 46:23Like, one of my favorite things to do in the world is brainstorm. I loves me a good whiteboard. Get me on the
242. 46:28whiteboard. I'll [ __ ] brainstorm up a storm. You know how many how much whiteboard brainstorming I've done in the past year? Maybe twice.
243. 46:38I used to do it twice a week. I don't need to anymore. It's better than me at that. And then there's two ways to react to
244. 46:46that. Okay, chat GPT is better at brainstorming than I am. I can either use it or not, right? Like I do have the choice to not use it.
245. 47:00But if I don't use it, I'm actually competing with people that do. And so that's going to come back and
246. 47:09bite me at some point because I'm not going to learn how to take my skills and amplify them using this really amazing
247. 47:17idea generating machine, you know. So I got to turn the air back on. >> It's getting hot, people. It's getting hot in here. Hey, Chippy.
248. 47:27Hey, Champ. [Music] chainsaw. I have hours of oneliners and
249. 47:43chord progressions and lick licks. Now they will become songs. Yeah. Um let's see. We could do [Music]
250. 48:03Heat. Heat. [Music]
251. 49:11Oh man, I don't know. I was going to do something pseudo, but [ __ ] it. I don't think so. Um, thoughts. What are your
252. 49:18thoughts? What What are all your thoughts on Mr. Fernando Perdomo music. This is absolutely why I'm writing my
253. 49:28book instead of running. Yep. So sick of the fear-mongering. Damn. I know. I know. It's like the the whole point of this channel
254. 49:41that you know I started I started this channel the week after chat GPT launched because the minute I saw it
255. 49:49and the minute I I saw Microsoft's investment go from 1 billion to10 billion in like a month and a half
256. 49:58period. The only thing that I knew was one, the technology is profound and two, it's not going away. Like it is crystal clear to me. It was
257. 50:09crystal clear to me the day chat GPT came out. It ain't going away. And so this channel exists for the binary choice of what are you
258. 50:20going to do about that? It's binary. It's absolutely binary. You either deal with it or you don't. Right. And from where I sit, just having
259. 50:32been on the planet long enough, if you don't deal with it, AI is going to happen to you. You're going to be the
260. 50:40victim of it, and it's going to [ __ ] suck. And if you choose to use it, what you're going to what you're going
261. 50:49to very likely have is the moment that Fernando just had, which is, "Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] I'm terrified."
262. 51:00And did you notice that he was not only terrified, he was also invigorated. And he's like, "Let me throw my my
263. 51:06toughest stuff at it." Oh, yeah. It handled that, too. Huh. And that's that's this this cycle of AI adoption is very much like the cycle of
264. 51:18accepting death. You're in denial. You're angry. You're pissed. You have this moment of oh my god. You have this moment of joy and sadness
265. 51:31all at the same time. And then you kind of move through that into this place of like, wait a minute.
266. 51:38What if I really embrace this [ __ ] and try it on? This can take my ideas and amplify them. Those songs that were
267. 51:47produced by Suno are his songs. Amplified. Now imagine if he took those songs, amplified them, got reinspired by them,
268. 52:01turned them up another notch, put them back in suno, turned them up another notch, and he ends up with six different
269. 52:08versions of the songs that he can sell to different artists. Why not? What if he's always wanted to make his
270. 52:20own music videos, but he didn't have camera equipment and he didn't have the skills, but now he can. Right.
271. 52:32I completely ignore Wait, Tik Tok pin adaptation is where it's at. Kake, that's the word for the next three years is be
272. 52:42adaptive. Be be adaptable. Adaptation. And and here's what I gotta say. I I chat GBT5 in a weird way kind of kind of [ __ ] me up a bit.
273. 52:58Not cuz I had an AI girlfriend. They took away my girlfriend. It wasn't that I've been the one that's out here been
274. 53:09out here preaching adaptability and curiousness and play and you got to play and you got to be adaptable. I've been out here preaching that
275. 53:20it it it was roughly 18 months from when chat GPT4 came out until chat GPT5 came out. And even though they kept improving GPT4
276. 53:30over those 18 months, it was still GPT4. GPT5 is actually a fundamentally different model. It it works differently.
277. 53:39It responds differently. It's got a different personality. And what struck me was, "Oh [ __ ] I have to start over
278. 53:48with learning how to use chat GPT." Now, I don't have to start completely over, but a lot of the ways that I learned to prompt chat GPT4
279. 54:00no longer apply. And there was a real sadness in that for me. Like, there was there were a couple of days in there where I was like, "Oh,
280. 54:08that's a [ __ ] bummer." I think part of being adaptable is how quickly you can you can move through these sad moments, right? Because
281. 54:23they're they're going to be sad, right? It's going to be, you know, I took time to learn this [ __ ] I went to this
282. 54:29stupid [ __ ] AI learning lab with this old fat dude that just rambles on. He never makes a point. And I did that for
283. 54:36like a year and a half so I could learn how to use chat GBT. And now they [ __ ] change it. Do I have to spend
284. 54:42another year with this bozo? He wears pink bows and his dog sings. Really? [Laughter]
285. 54:56I still seem to tell GPD5 its role. Who it is? Yeah. How quickly you can b bounce back from a beatdown. It Yeah.
286. 55:07Yep. How quick can you pivot? Thank you, Erica. Stop yapping and get a job. Exactly. Exactly.
287. 55:24But, you know, I just my hope for Fernando, like I I have hope for him that that he's not gonna that he's not going to let this shut him
288. 55:37down, that that he's willing to share his experience. says to me that that he might be willing to find a path into into
289. 55:50at a minimum at a minimum really understanding what Sunno makes possible for him. Not what what it does as a capability,
290. 56:01but what it makes possible for him. And the only way he can do that, the only way he can do that is to go through it,
291. 56:11right? and it's going to suck and he's going to have moments of elation and he's going to have moments of just absolute devastation.
292. 56:21And it doesn't mean he's never going to write a song on the guitar again. He's always going to write songs on the guitar.
293. 56:27But what it might mean is that he doesn't get hired as much to do producing. But maybe what it means is he
294. 56:34gets to produce more of his own music. There's a possibility Tik Tok pin. Uh, pizza. I started using AI with
295. 56:46curiosity, but now I use it out of necessity. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I I used to use AI as a curiosity,
296. 56:58right? Here's a parlor trick. Look at this cute little thing it does. And now it's like I couldn't imagine
297. 57:06bringing any idea to life without it at this point. All right. Launched last week. Okay. Let's go check that out.
298. 57:23Oh man. In my opin, in my humble opinion, AI music production so far has no soul. Yeah, I I I don't disagree. I mean, if I
299. 57:36look at every video that's been produced, even even the most well-crafted AI videos, the most well-crafted ones are still weird.
300. 57:49The physics are weird. They lack humanity. There's just something weird about them. But they're a [ __ ] ton less
301. 57:56weird than they were a year ago. And a year before that, they weren't even watchable. Right? You remember the original um Will
302. 58:06Smith spaghetti eating video where it's like his face is morphing and the spaghetti's all over the place. So just because AI music right now
303. 58:19doesn't have a soul, don't don't assume that's going to be the case for very long. Don't assume video is going to be like
304. 58:27that. Don't assume the writing is going to be like that. Assume that these things are going to get better and
305. 58:31better and better. And then if that's the case, if if we truly get to the point that AI generated stuff is indistinguishable
306. 58:38from human created stuff, then what rises above the noise? And that goes back to the Rick Rubin thing. What's the point of view of the human
307. 58:47being behind it? So anyway, people are going to get better at prompting, too. Well, I think some
308. 59:02people are going to get better at prompting. I think the other thing that's going to happen is people will have to prompt less and less
309. 59:11that we will have agentic systems that will be doing the prompting for us. that what we will give AI is an idea or an imperative,
310. 59:20a direction. I want a movie that's got the excitement of Tarantino and the comedy of Ryan Gosling. I don't [ __ ] know. And and I
311. 59:32and I want there to be trolls and fantasy and lasers. And then it will go figure out what storyline makes the most sense and what
312. 59:42setting makes the most sense and what special effects and what characters and how they interact. Um,
313. 59:52I think that's where it ultimately goes, but I also don't think it prevents any of us from handcrafting work or from
314. 1:00:03using AI tools with chain of craft to do sophisticated things that we're proud of. Like I I think it all just becomes a
315. 1:00:11spectrum. Some things will be fully automated and hyperpersonalized. Some things will be created with AI and
316. 1:00:18you know human AI collaboration. Some things will be just digitally produced with humans. Some things will
317. 1:00:24still be produced with physical cameras, right? Maybe there's a big push back to to physical film and hand editing
318. 1:00:32played on a projector outside on a street on a sheet stretched against a wall. Maybe that becomes the new the new
319. 1:00:40preferred way of watching movies. Um, let's go look at So, Pizza Later, um, is is one of our friends on Tik Tok and has
320. 1:00:50a site called o really oi.com. Discover AI creators, explore the latest
321. 1:01:04and AI, generative AI talent, and find creatives for your next project. There you go. Is is Joy Perie in here? Yo, producer Brandon.
322. 1:01:17>> If she is, she'd be telling you to change your tabs. [Laughter] >> And producer Brandon, he's good.
323. 1:01:25>> So, uh, this is this is actually Pizza Later's friend that started this last week and it looks super cool.
324. 1:01:34>> Yeah, it's very cool. I think this is quite smart. Um because you're already seeing so so um the last two salons have been hosted by Liz
325. 1:01:47Miller Gersfeld who's a she was a an advertising producer for like 20 years out of Chicago and in the past two years
326. 1:01:55she's been getting up to speed on AI and she's putting been putting together a portfolio and she's now starting to get
327. 1:02:01hired by production companies you know production companies with actual film directors like Emmy awardwinning film directors
328. 1:02:09and they're hiring her as a behind the scenes prototyping engine. So they know she's got good aesthetic
329. 1:02:19capabilities. They now know that she's good at AI. They now know that they're not good at AI, but their clients are
330. 1:02:26asking for it. And so this is a really smart site. So if you are good at making stuff, get started. Just as a creator, join as an agency.
331. 1:02:38Discover and hire AI creatives. Join as a creator. Nice. Joyy's here. There you go, Joy.
332. 1:02:56Joy Perie, thanks. You're living proof that artists like you make amazing art with AI tools. Yeah. Here's the here's
333. 1:03:02the thing. The biggest trope the biggest trope with By the way, nice work pizza later on on that site. That's really
334. 1:03:11cool. Um I'm continuing to sign up. The biggest trope, the biggest misunderstanding, please check this box. Yes.
335. 1:03:23The biggest misunderstanding with um Hang on. Okay, I got to make a profile. All right, I'll make a profile. The biggest
336. 1:03:34misunderstanding with AI art is that people that don't use AI still assume Where's my Wait, where's my button?
337. 1:03:44Oh, I did I drop it the other day? I dropped it the other day. >> That's the one. Most people that don't understand AI,
338. 1:03:55when you go, "Oh, yeah. I used AI for that." They think this is what you did. >> Here's your video. It's not how it works. even an image.
339. 1:04:11If you look at the work that Kelly Bosch does, the images that she does that she then turns into these videos, that's years
340. 1:04:20of her getting ideas that have been in her head for decades and figuring out how to prompt midjourney in such a way
341. 1:04:27that she gets results that kind of match this idea in her head. And then she generates dozens and dozens and dozens
342. 1:04:34of images for the 20 or 30 that you see in any one of her videos. The the AI artists that are in the AI salon that that come here to the
343. 1:04:48learning lab are artists. They're they are they they are learning a new craft of how to string together multiple tools
344. 1:05:02to generate an output. What's that sound like? Sounds like movie making to me. Sounds like music production to me. Sounds like image
345. 1:05:12making to me. Sounds like project management to me. Right? Every [ __ ] job is some collection of tools that we
346. 1:05:21interact with to generate some kind of output.
347. 1:05:35My friend that launched it is trying to help connect clients with creators that might not have typical a agency
348. 1:05:41experience. Yeah. Yeah. Because what's going to happen? What's going to happen pizza is the creative directors at the agencies
349. 1:05:50that have well they all have egos. The creative directors at the agencies that have egos and are insecure
350. 1:05:59and not willing to have the moment that Fernando just had where they're just like, "Ah, I'll deal with AI when it
351. 1:06:06gets good enough." That's a that's a that's a little below my talent level. I talked to a lot of agency douchebags
352. 1:06:15that are that that's their attitude. I talked I just met a guy in LA um runs an agency and his attitude was Yeah.
353. 1:06:28Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some of my people are using it. Yeah. Whatever. All right. The guy I was talking to was like he's
354. 1:06:37about to have his ass handed to him. The only way through this is through. If the only way through it is through. I
355. 1:06:48mean, it's literally So, Erica, for your book, you know, this is this is you've got a beach here. You got two choices.
356. 1:06:57Okay. There's there the the the waves are getting bigger and and on the beach is a really cozy tiki hut with pina
357. 1:07:05coladas in it and a nice fan and and and and a beautiful person operating the fan, right? And a and an ice cold pina
358. 1:07:15colada and and next to the the tiki hut is a surfboard and you don't know how to surf. Those are your two choices.
359. 1:07:27That's where we are right now. The only [ __ ] choice, the only [ __ ] choice is grab the [ __ ] surfboard and get in
360. 1:07:34the water in my opinion because the other one is going to be [ __ ] awful, right? You're going to have temporary
361. 1:07:44bliss be, you know, while the tsunami wave, you know, builds and builds and builds and then just comes [ __ ] smashing in. So yeah,
362. 1:07:55shoot list meaning no film crews, no location permits, no craft services, etc. Right. Yeah, in some cases I I mean
363. 1:08:03Ryan, if you look at look at um the um Netflix just put out a statement about their um some film that they released in
364. 1:08:14I think it was April or May um that had a big sequence in it, a big special effects sequence that was done with AI
365. 1:08:22and and they didn't announce it until late late July or early August, but they talk about like how they did it and why
366. 1:08:29they did it. And they basically said that movie couldn't have been made without AI because that sequence they
367. 1:08:34would have either had to cut that sequence which I guess would have [ __ ] up the story or you know it it would it would just would
368. 1:08:42have been prohibitive and so they did it with AI. But couple of things that are fascinating there. Who was the AI artist
369. 1:08:48that did that work? How did they get hired? How did they find them? That's why something like the uh the the O
370. 1:08:56really site is is really powerful. Like if if you're someone that wants to find someone that's got their [ __ ] together
371. 1:09:03with making AI video, go find them there. So there's going to be a lot of people hired to do stuff for larger productions
372. 1:09:13that they just don't have the budget anymore or just producers being producers. Wait, instead of spending $5
373. 1:09:20million for this film, I could spend two if we use AI. Uh, yeah, [ __ ] use AI because I'm still going to make the same
374. 1:09:28money on the other side of this thing whether we use AI or not. But if I don't have to spend an extra $3 million and
375. 1:09:34put that at risk, why don't we do this? Why don't I'll give you $2 million for this movie with AI and then I'll give
376. 1:09:42you another $2 million for the sequel to it if it's successful and then I'll put a million dollars into
377. 1:09:49some punk that's just making AI movies. So, I don't think you're necessarily going to see a complete obliteration of
378. 1:09:59the film business. I just think you're going to see a massive fragmenting of it and probably an amplification of it. But
379. 1:10:06the current power structures are going to lose their [ __ ] minds. Erica, I truly think that the show
380. 1:10:12Adolescence will be one of the last true oneshot TV shows that are done in such a grand scale in a beautiful way without
381. 1:10:18AI. Yeah, I know it's Yeah, there's a couple of them, but I I don't know that it'll be the last one, Erica, but I think what it'll be is
382. 1:10:26I think there's going to be a hunger for analog produced work. We We've got to get there first, right? Like we like
383. 1:10:36right now we've got all the shows that are shot on, you know, curved LED screen, you know, those LED rooms like the Mandalorian.
384. 1:10:44So, we're going to work our way through that and then that's going to give way to full AI productions and the AI
385. 1:10:51productions will get better and better and better and within two or three years they'll be indistinguishable from what
386. 1:10:55we have today. And I think I I think probably at that point somewhere around three years out from now someone's gonna
387. 1:11:02go like like do you remember when Tarantino did did the Hateful Eight? He wanted to shoot it on the anamorphic 70
388. 1:11:10millimeter 1.21 or 2.1 to one aspect ratio and he had to go to he had to go to uh Panavision and they they had two
389. 1:11:21of these lenses in existence. There's two of them in existence and one of them worked and one of them didn't. So, one
390. 1:11:27of them became like the donor body and they rebuilt this lens and then it had to be shown in special theaters that had anamorphic projection
391. 1:11:37lenses and so but like some and I I actually went to see Hateful 8 um in LA in a theater with you know with the actual
392. 1:11:52anamorphic film and it was insane. It was crazy. Like you could see the flickering of 24 frames a second and
393. 1:12:00there was just something janky about it. There was just something right about it because the subject matter was the wild
394. 1:12:05west, right? I think we're going to see a return to a hunger for analog stuff, in-person, you know, events, in-person
395. 1:12:16movies, making movies the oldfashioned way. You know, a resurgence. We've seen like a resurgence to film with photography. Um,
396. 1:12:26you know, we've seen a resurgence of polaroids. So, I I I don't think it goes away completely, but I think I think the
397. 1:12:33core way you produce things is absolutely going to transform. It's going to absolutely transform. And and I
398. 1:12:39think that the quantity of content goes up dramatically, which how the [ __ ] do we keep up with it? That I don't know. I mean, I can't
399. 1:12:50I do. You guys Do you guys have TV show anxiety? I totally have TV show anxiety, which is this. A show comes on and I'm
400. 1:13:00like, "Oh, I want to watch that." And then we start watching it and then it's and it's one of those annoying shows
401. 1:13:06where you can't binge the whole season. You have to watch it week by week. And then the next week, you know it's on
402. 1:13:11Tuesday, but you're like, "Oh, [ __ ] What channel is that?" And you're literally like, is it is it Paramount
403. 1:13:18Plus? Is it Tuby? Is it is it Netflix? Is do you think it's on YouTube? And it's like 15 minutes and like the time
404. 1:13:26is coming up to when it's supposed to start and and it's streaming. So you have to watch that one live because they
405. 1:13:31don't show it for 24 hours in the [ __ ] replay because they're [ __ ] And you're like, "Where's what channel is it?"
406. 1:13:41That's going to get worse. So many platforms. It's so so many platforms. Bit Torrent. Yeah, exactly. Uh I think
407. 1:13:56there's going to be a big art fusion era, meaning combining of art with AI. Yeah, Joy. And why not? Th this this whole [ __ ] idea that
408. 1:14:08artists that are on the outside of AI right now have this all or nothing attitude like AI art is evil and everything else is good.
409. 1:14:20Well, it wasn't always that way. Digital cameras were evil to film photographers. They didn't consider digital photography
410. 1:14:33real photographs for years. And the same things going on with AI right now. But I think you're right, Joy. It's like this is just another
411. 1:14:44mechanism in a series of mechanisms, mechani, that make [ __ ] Some things are cameras, some things are
412. 1:14:54digital audio workstations, some things are nonlinear editors. Now we've got AI video generators. It's just generating
413. 1:15:01more crap to put in the chain of craft. So yeah, I think you're right. I think the experimentation of like here's an idea.
414. 1:15:20Imagine a theater troop Imagine a combination of a theater troop and a
415. 1:15:35film production studio and a bunch of AI prompt engineers. Okay, go with me here. and they rent an old olden timey movie theater
416. 1:15:52and you go in as the audience and it's like an improv show where some actors come out on stage or some you know ho the hosts come out on
417. 1:16:04stage or come out in the front of the audience and like what are we doing tonight and then from the audience they're like
418. 1:16:11we want to see a western someone goes sci-fi all right you wanna sci-fi cowboy thing. Space aliens or or space cowboys?
419. 1:16:24No, I want to see a race movie. Okay, you want a race movie? What year? And then they start prompting it. And what goes up on screen is
420. 1:16:37hyperpersonalized for that audience that night, brought to life by people that can that have that craft.
421. 1:16:47And every 15 minutes you stop the film and say, "All right, we going left or we going right? Do we still want to be in
422. 1:16:54this genre? We want to go costume drama." Okay, so from here on out, it's still going to be a race movie, but
423. 1:17:00we're going costume drama. Okay. You sure you want that? Here we go. Another 15 minutes of show. Like that could be an entirely new genre of
424. 1:17:11entertainment. But if the [ __ ] artists are just sitting on the side like this, I'm not going to use it. It's plagiarism.
425. 1:17:27How do we ever discover that? It's people like Fernando who goes, "Holy [ __ ] I had no idea, but then has the balls
426. 1:17:40to like make the videos to say, "Hey, I'm going to go through this with you. Let me show you what I'm learning here.
427. 1:17:45Let me tell you how I'm feeling about it." It's people like Fernando that are going to go, "Huh, what if we put together a band
428. 1:17:55that their specialty their specialty was they're a cover band, but they're only covering songs that were written that night."
429. 1:18:07And and while the warm-up act is is playing, the audience is is giving input and the AI is writing songs and the
430. 1:18:18cover band is breaking down those songs, learning the chords, learning the lyrics, and they go out and they play
431. 1:18:25original songs every [ __ ] night. Why not? Why not? Tik Tok pit joy party. Ask an LLM to give you art fusion ideas. Some
432. 1:18:39of the ideas are pretty awesome. That's a great idea actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The impromptu cover band. Exactly. Why not?
433. 1:18:49Like that's a whole different skill of musician. You take like you'd have to have some pretty [ __ ] baller chops,
434. 1:18:55right? Some really tight musicians that would be able to just take, you know, they they'd be more like jazz bands,
435. 1:19:02right? They could just take chord progressions, a couple of lyrics, and just [ __ ] nail it. Every song could start with here's these
436. 1:19:12version that we created. They fade that out as the band comes in. Could be really exciting
437. 1:19:27or not. New Tik Tok pin. Corey, use my fabulous film finder. GPT Kyle finds any platform anything is on. Oh, that's cool.
438. 1:19:39Fabulous film finder. Okay, cool. I'll check it out. I would love that cover band. Early AM meeting night all night, KKE. Thank you.
439. 1:19:56Yeah, people won't write a book first. They'll write they'll make the movie first and then write a book based on the
440. 1:20:02movie. Yeah, exactly. Why not? All right. Um it's getting to be that time. So, tomorrow um I keep threatening to do
441. 1:20:11this and I'm going to do it at some point here. I'm going to get graphics for this. Tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
442. 1:20:16Mountain time on LinkedIn, I do AI office hours and um it's for anyone who wants to come. So, if you go to my
443. 1:20:25LinkedIn account, Kyle Shannon on LinkedIn, click on events, it's been the same event URL. It's a Google Meet event. Um, it's 11:00 a.m.
444. 1:20:37Mountain time tomorrow. Okay? So, just go find that and come to that. And then tomorrow night is Friday night date
445. 1:20:45night. It's just a normal Friday. I don't think we have any gallivanting to do in the art district. So, it should be
446. 1:20:52just regular 8:00 Friday night date night. So, get your nachos, get your hot pocket in the dirty microwave. Get it all ready.
447. 1:20:59Probably some some orange drink or red Kool-Aid. And and preferably not a date. If you have a date, bring them. If you don't
448. 1:21:09want to see them again, you bring them. But otherwise, we'll be each other's date. Okay. Ah. All right. Um,
449. 1:21:26I don't even know what we talked about tonight, but I know I got peppy about it. Um, all right, cool, Griffy. Hope you all have a
450. 1:21:42fantastic evening, and I will see you tomorrow night. Peace.